Showing posts with label Prisoner Votes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Prisoner Votes. Show all posts

Friday, April 01, 2011

Farage on Prisoner Votes

UKIP leader Nigel Farage today has a few lines in the Express responding to the European Council's Human Rights Commissioner, Mr Hammarberg.

The key quote is I think this,
Mr Hammarberg believes in democracy in which he says “the will of the people shall be expressed in elections”. But like so many of the elite he wants to decide what answers are given. That is not democracy: That is autocracy.


Monday, December 20, 2010

Planned prisoner votes legislation is a dog's dinner

James Forsyth on the Spectator blog has poited to Mark Harper's statement today about what the Government plans to do about prisoner votes. He claims there will be a Tory rebellion,
A lot of sensible Tory backbenchers think that the coalition could have responded far more robustly to the Strasbourg court’s decision.
If the whips are not careful, the whole issue could become a proxy for Tory concerns about the failure to move on a British Bill of Rights which its proponents claim would offer some protection from the rulings of the increasingly activist Strasbourg Court.
The thing is that it will be a proxy for more than that.

The proposals state,
• Prisoners sentenced to less than four years in jail will get the right to vote. Those sentenced to more than four years won't. The ECHR judgment doesn't mean all prisoners have to be allowed to vote, and a four-year cut off has been chosen because that is regarded as the distinction between a short- and long-term jail sentence. Judges will also have the right to remove the right to vote from prisoners sentenced to less than four years if they consider that appropriate.
• Prisoners will only be able to vote in Westminster or European elections. They will not vote in local elections or referendums. This means they will not get to vote for elected police commissioners.
• They will not be registered to vote at the prison. They will be registered at their former address, and they will vote by post or by proxy. This means candidates do not have to worry about a block of 1,000-odd prisoners from one jail affecting the result of a constituency election.
• MPs will vote on these measures next year. The government has to change the law by August 2011 to meet a deadline set by the ECHR.
Prisoner votes is yet another area where UKIP are in tune with the vast majority of the British public, and the formal political establishment are off in cuckoo land.


Some Tory backbenchers see this, and some may rebel. However please don't think that opposition to prisoner votes is merely an issue for those who traditionally vote Tory. Ask around in Labour areas and the idea is trashed and any proponent is treated with contempt.

I am prepared to bet that if the coalition get this one past, which they will, then Mr Hirst will be back over in Strasbourg demanding that this new law be overturned. And a side bet is that he will win.

If you accept the jurisdiction of the ECHR, which this government does and UKIP rejects, then you accept their decisions. Not piecemeal, but in their entirety.



Monday, November 08, 2010

So sue me too, you axe-murderer

John Hirst, the Jailhouse lawyer really does have to get over himself. With that lack of self knowledge so common amongst the headline chasing 'I know my rights' types he so personifies he is threatening Guido, Jeremy Vine, the BBC et al with the Courts for Libel.
Dear Mr Staines

I email you to inform you of my intention to sue you for the libels against me by yourself on the Jeremy Vine Show and your blog http://order-order.com/2010/11/03/guido-v-axe-murderer/

I also intend to sue Jeremy Vine and the BBC.

As you are fully aware that I was convicted of manslaughter and not murder, there really is no legal excuse for your conduct.

Nevertheless, I am offering you the opportuntity to reach an out of court settlement of my claim.

Yours sincerely

John Hirst
John, you cut your landlandy up with an axe bludgeoned your landlady to death with an axe handle. Deal with it, some will not allow you the convenience that you allow yourself, your manslaughter verdict does not in any way diminish your responsibility in my or many other eyes. To me you are an axe-murderer, and what is more I describe you as such in conversations, on line and elsewhere.

So go on, add me to your list of legal targets. Because that email and threat just has to be the most pompus thing I have seen in years.

Tuesday, November 02, 2010

Prisoner Votes: confusion all round

There seems to be a great wodge of confusion about the issue of prisoners votes. The fact that the Government is acting after a series of European Court of Human Rights judgements makes this a Council of Europe issue . But given that the last Government was able to chuck the issue into the long grass tells us that it did not feel bound by those decisions.

I have here to applaud John Hirst the Jailhouse Lawyer - his long campaign, often lonely and filled with vitriol, and abuse from both sides has born fruit. I disagree with him utterly, but I salute his hard work and perserverance. The decision by David Cameron to bow to the demands of the European Courts is all down to his hard work. A lesson there in the power of one man to change the world.

As far as I can see, and the legal advice is not available so we just have to take the Governments word for it, but it looks like HMG has decided that as in the post Lisbon world, as the European Charter of Fundamental Rights is now apended to the Lisbon Treaty, decisions by the Court (ECHR) are now justicable. Therefore it was left with nowhere to wriggle. Britain would be find and would have to pay huge compensation to the 70,000 prisoners denied a vote. We cannot tell without seeing the legal advice given to the Government, but that seems to me to be the only serious explanation.

Nosemonkey has his doubts, and in his defence he sent me this. It is the
A guide to the Treaty of Lisbon
produced by the Law Society.

It goes into some depth about the way in which Council of Europe ECHR judgements and the whole architecture of ECHR (Convention) will apply to the UK in a post Lisbon world.

It starts out by making it clear, that things are not clear,
The Charter of Fundamental Rights becomes a fundamental part of EU law, although the UK has reserved its position (see chapter 3).
So what of this position?
A Protocol on the application of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union to Poland and to the UK has been agreed.
This states that ‘the Charter does not extend the ability of the Court of Justice of the European Union, or any court or tribunal of Poland or of the UK, to find that the laws, regulations or administrative provisions, practices or action of Poland or of the UK are inconsistent with the fundamental rights, freedoms and principles that it reaffirms’.
This specific position appears to suggest that the Charter has been interpreted as introducing new rights. Arguably, this move was not necessary, as the Charter does not create new general rights under national law, and only applies when national governments are implementing EU law.
Exactly how this Protocol will work in practice remains to be seen.
Ah, now there is the rub, "Remains to be seen". We don't know, as it will rely on the application of law over time, not on what pre-exists. The law hasn't been tested.

Lets have a look at that clarification,
Accession to the ECHR will mean that the EU and its institutions will be accountable to the European Court of Human Rights for issues concerning the ECHR, in the same way that the UK currently is in relation to domestic matters where ECHR issues arise. In other words, the EU institutions would be directly subject to the ECHR and the European Courts would be able to directly apply the ECHR as part of EU law. This means that if a lawyer wished to raise arguments before the European Courts, based directly on the rights set out in the ECHR, or to the provisions of the treaties themselves, this will be possible.
Following accession to the ECHR (provided for by the Treaty), the EU will be required to accede to the ECHR. EU law will then have to be interpreted in the light of the ECHR, not only as a general principle of EU law but as a Convention directly applicable to the EU and to which the EU adheres. Nevertheless, the Treaty of Lisbon and its Protocols do state that accession to the ECHR will not affect the EU’s competences and that provision will be made for preserving the specific characteristics of the EU and EU law.
Well to my untrained eyeds it does look as if decisions of the ECHR (Court) based on the ECHR (Convention) will be usable in ECJ cases. But only in specific areas. And what are those areas?
The Treaty sets out the citizens’ rights which were agreed under the Maastricht Treaty. Citizenship is a key principle. All EU nationals are citizens of the EU and the Treaty recognises the importance of the rights that flow from that status. These citizens’ rights include:
• The right to move and reside freely within the territory of EU countries;
• The right to stand and vote in elections to the European Parliament and at municipal elections in the country in which an EU citizen resides (even if this is not the home state);
• The right of access to documents; and
• The right to diplomatic and consular protection.
So from the position of the Law Society, I would say that the ECHR (Court and Convention) does have the capacity to have an impact on National and EU law when it comes to voting rights.

And remind me what we are talking about here. Oh yes, the right or otherwise of prisoners to vote.

Thus this is now an EU matter rather than merely an CoE matter. Can anybody prove differently?
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